Thomas Tull is the Chairman and CEO of Legendary Pictures, an independent production company that has helped co-finance and co-produce films such as Superman Returns, 300, The Dark Knight and most recently Watchman. Tull rarely grants interviews to the press, but The Continental has a connection: Hamilton College. He graduated in 1992 as a government major and our Senior Editor Eric Kuhn went out to the Warner Brothers lot in L.A. to get the inside scoop. Tull graciously opened his doors and welcomed us in for a weeping interview.
What was your time at Hamilton like?
One professor I remember in particular was visiting from the University of Chicago named Rob Kurfirst who was really smart, very cool and got his point across. You better have done your homework because if you didn’t you would feel pretty foolish in class. The one thing I remember was just how elevated it was. There were a lot of smart people in one place and even conversations outside of class. You never get that again where you are in that kind of setting where there are so many smart, accomplished people everyday that you are interacting with – professors and students – and helps you elevate your game.
Any good classes that stood out?
There was a constitutional law class that stood out. A couple of History classes as well. One with Professor Kelly who taught some history classes, especially a class he did on German history and World War Two where he would show one of Hitler’s speeches, transcribe it and then show how the country got sweated up by this sort of charisma. Chris Georges who did an econ class that I thought was pretty good. That was my introduction to, you know, make more than you spend. It was a great experience.
Where did you live on campus?
I lived one year in North Hall and then I lived in DU back when that was still a place and then I lived in Carnegie.
You transferred into Hamilton, right?
I transferred from a college in Pennsylvania, Mansfield University. I played football there.
So then how did you choose Hamilton?
I played football and hurt my ankle and knee pretty badly. So I wanted to go to a school that had a great education. So I looked at Williams, Cornell, Colgate and Hamilton and I loved the school.
What extracurricular actives were you involved in?
Well, I played football and was a member of DU –
What was DU’s reputation back then?
Mostly football and hockey players. It was a pretty rowdy crowd. For me personally that was not my kind of thing, but it was fun. A great group of guys.
How did you decide to be a government major?
Well, ever since I was a little kid (I am not sure looking back if this was a complement or not a complement) everyone would always say, “you should become a lawyer.” I was sure I was going to go to law school. That was always the plan and the most pragmatic way to do that at Hamilton was to be a government major and then take the LSATs.
And you did really well on the LSATs.
I did. Yeah. And then I had a family friend who said to me, “It is not like it is on LA Law. Now you are going to come out of this s with huge debt and then you are going to be a lawyer. I want you to really think about if this is what you want to do.” Our family did not have any money, so I thought about it, took a pause, got into some small businesses, sold them and did fairly well with them. Things kind of took momentum and I never went back to get my law degree or my MBA, which I thought about in my mid-20s.
You decided to sponsor a Film Treatment Challenge at Hamilton. How did the idea first come about?
To be completely candid, I told Neil Ellice and Michael Jenson I wanted to have an intern program. Then I asked how we can make it more tangible for people who wanted to get into entertainment. They came back to me saying there are a lot of smart people at Hamilton and maybe one of them has a story. So we have an intern program and the Film Treatment. In the next few weeks we will wrap that up and I will see what kinds of things students come up with. I am very excited about it.
It is such a great opportunity. But clearly you do not get your ideas from Hamilton students. So I wonder how you get your story ideas and what do you look for when reading a script or film treatment?
First of all, we are very fortunate to have the most talented storytellers in the planet come to us and Warner Brothers, where we have an amazing partnership. So between the two of us they will either come to us with their Superman or Batman franchise or something we have developed. So the talent agencies will bring us projects. We are in constant contact with writers, directors, producers to go through the development process and it organically comes together. In terms of what do I personally look for? We tend to make things I want to see for better or for worse. Tends to be action, adventure, horror, science fiction, fanboy kinds of things, but hopefully elevate. Hopefully Batman, The Dark Knight, 300 are examples of that. Chris Nolan is, I think, one of the best filmmakers working today. If you look at the cast of Dark Knight under Chris’ direction, they could have just as easily done Shakespeare as a Batman movie. So what we aspire to do is be associated with projects that, yes are commercial, but is elevated with a great cast and director. So far that has worked out well.
You really broke into Hollywood with your ability to raise private equity funds.
I have been one of the biggest film geeks since I was a kid. So what helped facilitate this was that I spoke movie and I spoke private equity. So if you could bridge those gaps, that is what allowed us to start our production company and raise a lot of money. Another element is Warner Brothers. We are partnered with the best studio on the planet and they are just the classiest people you would ever want to run into.
“A lot of money.” $1.5 billion!
Yeah. Enough money where you can make some movies. In this age it is an expensive endeavor. So you need to have enough money so you can make it through good times and bad times. We have been very fortunate.
What is your advice for those who want to go out and raise private equity? What is the key to your success?
Besides luck, which is certainly part of it, my mantra is to make sure the equity component is the last ingredient to your having a company. So when we did Legendary Pictures we had our bank debt tactically in place, we had our deal with Warner Brothers in place and we had several projects. Then when I was able to go out to the equity markets, it was “Look, if you put your money in, we have a company, we have a real live enterprise.” So I think when you are going out and asking other people for a check, be thoughtful about how you are going to treat it, be clear about what your vision is, be clear about how they will ultimately realize a profit through an event and how you can build a company that could attract private equity. But in the beginning I think once you have those elements put together and are telling your story and you say, “you write your check and this is all real and tangible” that is always the playbook I have always used.
You mentioned your movies tend to be for the “fanboy” audience. Do you focus on that demographic because it makes good business sense or because that is who you are or both?
I think all the above. But, what is really interesting to me is fanboy in the past has meant a 14-year-old kid in his parent’s basement, playing video games and stuff like that. It is more of a psychographic than a demographic. I am 38 and I read comic books, play video games and go to our kind of movies. There are plenty of kids my age who grew up on Star Wars and now it is just part of your culture. Also, it is not just guys. The worldwide gross we had on 300 was not just guys going to that movie. There are a lot of women who play video games and like these kinds of movies. To me it is more of a psychographic and what it means. If you look at some of the big successes (Marvel did a great job with Iron Man, certainly Spiderman was a big movie, Dark Knight did very well for us and we just released Watchmen), that “geek culture” so to speak has spread and is certainly not confined to a small group anymore.
I read you started reading Watchmen at Hamilton.
I did.
When you got that script in front of you, what were you thinking about being able to make that movie?
It was a scary proposition. When we first started talking about it I said, “Boy, this is a sophisticated piece of material. It is not fluff. Is it filmable?” So when I read the script that Zack Snyder (who also directed the film) came up with I said, “That’s the Watchmen.” I feel that way about the film. It is kind of a daring thing, we are very proud of the movie, and I think Warner Brothers did an amazing job with it – it is not an easy film to market.
The Wall Street Journal reported about all the things that could have gone wrong with Watchmen and why it could not have been a success: it is rated R, had sex, etcetera. Do you think about that and then are you nervous when the film is released?
Sure. We have a lot of money tied up with this both in the negative cost of the film and the marketing cost. I am responsible to my board of directors and investors. They are not interested in anything besides what our financial results are, which is appropriate. But, on the other hand, we are also not in the widget business. So we do all of our homework, financial modeling and try to make sure we are making a sane judgment. There will always be risk, but are we in the confines of something that is reasonable and put ourselves in a position to be successful. And then part two is, is it a great story, do you believe in the filmmaker and the whole package. Then you sometimes just have to jump off. I can tell you certainly that 300 was not textbook, but sometimes you just have to take a chance.
The recent WSJ article on you mentioned some of your early setbacks with “Ant Bully” and “Lady in the Water.” What did you learn from those “flops?”
Sure, when you get started in any business, before you have time to develop your own materials and get your feet under you, there is a list of films, in our case, that you choose from. Not for better or worse, but Ant Bully is a kids movie and it is not our core expertise. It was early and we did not do well in those films. It was outside our area of expertise. I am not sure how much we learned besides stick to what you know and we have been very fortunate outside of that.
Glu Mobile announced a few weeks ago that it was going to launch Watchmen: the Mobile Game. You have said you want to build on your foundation to create the next generation media company. What is that company going to look like?
Well, I think there are a number of things. Your choices as a consumer have expanded so greatly. Before you could go to the movies and then see it on HBO. Then we had videotape and then video on demand and DVDs and now you can go on iTunes and watch a movie. So I think that you have to put things and package things where consumers can view these things anyway they want. At the same time, what were really interested in building as a next generation media company, certainly movies at the forefront and foundation, but video games, mobile content, digital content, original content is something that we are developing and really excited about. Our goal and hope is to build this into a next generation media company that plays across all of those mediums.
What is a day in the life of Thomas Tull like? What do you do day-to-day?
I get up very early, work out and do calls to the east cost. Then head into the office here and will usually have a staff meeting to make sure everyone is on the same page. We will review the projects we are developing and are in production. Inevitably there will be some problem or issue somewhere you have to deal with. Through the day we will hear a pitch or a script someone wants you to consider. You will go over and look at your dailies, which is each day they shoot we look at that at night and say how we think the shoot went. We watch director’s cuts (the first time they cut the film together) and then giving your thoughts and comments. Working hand-in-hand with the executives at Warner Brothers. Then in terms of new media, we look at companies we might want to buy that expand our horizons. We look at ways to expand the brands we have or developed if through a mobile app or a casual game to expand that experience.
You recently have invested in the Steelers. How did that come about?
I have been a Steelers fan since I was a little boy and have just bleed black and gold for years and years. I had the privilege of meeting the Rooney family a few years ago and got to be friendly with some guys on the team. We did a movie called We Are Marshall and the Steelers had asked to screen the film a few weeks before the movie came out, which I was more than happy to go to and had a great day with them. Spring of last year, 2008, I got a call that said the family was looking into restructuring and would I be interested. Of course I said yes, beyond my wildest dreams.
It seems like you don’t do anything that is not fun!
Well, there are certainly parts of the day, but I believe you should truly do what you love. I completely understand I am one of the luckiest people you are going to run into. From where I grew up and came from to where I am now, it is very humbling.
What do you see your leadership style being?
Stand next to people who are smarter than you and it seems to work out. You have to be comfortable actually to surround yourself with people who are very confident and very good at what they do and not be one of those who constantly remind people of the pecking order and so forth. Culturally, it is very important to me that it is a privilege to be here and do not ever forget that and act taller than you are. That is very important.
If you could be one of your superheroes what would it be?
Oh man. King Leonidas from 300 was great. But if you could be Superman, that would be pretty great. Who does not want to fly? I love Batman, but he has some sociological issues, so I would have to say Superman. He got to fly, super strength, help people – that would be pretty great.
Do you have a favorite movie you have produced?
Dark Knight is one of those once in a lifetime experiences and because of the cast and Heath Ledger in particular. Chris Nolan is so talented and gets the material. Get out of his way to let him do his thing. I don’t know if I have a favorite, but that was quite an experience.
What was the last song you downloaded onto your iPod?
I think I just got a new high def, digital version of “All Along the Watchtower.” Hendrix.
You recently premiered out in Sundance It Might Get Loud, a movie about the guitar. What is the back-story about putting this movie together?
I played since I was 14, through college and a year and a half ago I had this thought that Guitar Hero was the number one video game, Rolling Stone Magazine has 50 Top Guitar Players and I started wondering what is it about this intersegment that has an international appeal. My friend Davis Guggenheim just won an Oscar for An Inconvenient Truth and is an amazing director and documentarian. So I called him and said I want to do this movie about the guitar and cast it in different eras and in different styles. So we sat down and talked about it and I said the dream list would be Jimmy Page, because he is Jimmy Page and does not do a lot of interviews and put himself out there. The Edge from U2, stylistically very different -- amazing huge group. And then Jack White who is today’s guitar hero. By some miracle all three said yes and we made the film and it was a really fantastic experience. It is actually not a part of Legendary, but a small documentary that I did and will come out this August, 2009 through Sony Pictures Classics.
Finally, for Hamilton students who want to follow in your footsteps, what is your advice?
One thing would be try to – whether it through an internship or just some interaction – figure out what you want to do. There are so many aspects of the entertainment business: in front of or behind a camera, a producer, creative executive, executive or any of the ancillary businesses surround it. Get your feet wet a little bit to see what you like. Do your homework and research and then it has to be something you are passionate about. It is a tough business, but if it is something that you really, really want to do, I promise you (and I am proof positive) you can come from anywhere and have a little part of this out here. That is the best advice I can give: be persistent, do your homework and be relentless.
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